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he holds himself back even though i keep saying he shouldn't

and i know he worries, he already did, but i just keep giving him new reasons to.

[so: that's a yes to the guilt.]

this isn't about telling him the truth then, is it, if you're talking about alternate explanations

The truth of the illness itself as isn't important. It's the truth of what path you intend to take in life. Yesod can choose how far he wants to walk along it with you.

And it's your choice how much you decide to trust him to allow him to. Do you know the choice he wants to make?

Edited 2024-01-22 08:59 (UTC)

he says he wants to choose what makes me happy. that he doesn't want to restrict me. i tried talking about it with him but i don't think it worked like i wanted it to

i want him to put himself first sometimes, even a little

he's been turning down the offer i made him to not share me if he doesn't want to, so then what's my half of the compromise if he keeps refusing to ask me for anything

[Well this was. Not quite the direction he was meaning for this to go but this is...]

I feel this is best for you and Yesod to discuss directly but I'm seeing the issue is that he has put it in your hands what you'll trust him with and you want him to ask instead of simply waiting for what you'll give him.

Does that seem right?

more or less.

and yes, i've told him to ask

i'm being as open about all of this as i know how to be

[Netach is going to see '...' on and off for a couple minutes.]

Okay.

Yesod has come to me about this because he was looking for a similar perspective. But if he hasn't told you yet then it would be a breech of trust for me to lay out his feelings in his place. I respect him enough not to do that. But you have no idea how to be welcoming enough to get him out of his shell on his own.

[Uuugh he is not the relationship expert here. How does he do this.]

Yesod and I are not the same person but I understand his feelings on the matter even if I don't currently share them. You and Kaveh hold a similar position in our lives.

Would it help for me to explain my view so that you can better understand where Yesod is coming from?

you know what

yeah, let's give that a shot

[Well... okay. They're doing this. Later, Alhaitham will stop and consider the circumstances that led to him being extremely candid about him and Kaveh for the sake of playing relationship counselor for Netzach and Yesod.]

Kaveh and I had a similar conversation in regards to him not holding himself back for my sake. If there came a day that Kaveh decided he wanted to give himself in full to someone else I already know that I'll accept that. Even if it isn't the most comfortable choice for me, because Kaveh's happiness holds more value to me than having him be mine exclusively.

You could say that Kaveh's happiness makes me happy, and so I'm inclined to make choices that emphasize it. If that means compromising more of my wants for his, that's an easy choice for me to make. This isn't sacrificial, because having Kaveh pleased is worth more to me than having Kaveh to myself.

But it isn't the ideal circumstance. I'm confident in my ability to navigate those feelings without putting a wedge between myself and Kaveh because I already know what it takes to break us apart.

I don't know how much Kaveh has told you about us, but we had a fight that resulted in us avoiding each other for years. I don't believe you and Yesod have experienced the same strain on your relationship, right? There's a level of strife that's still uncharted territory, and jealousy breaks up relationships all the time.

mm... yeah, I guess we've never had that type of issue

i wouldn't say it's never been strained, though. you saw how i was in the facility, and the way he was back then... he still looked out for me more than he'd have admitted to, and i still tried to help him out a little in the ways i could manage, but it was hard for any of us to actually be close.

half the problem is we'd never really just.... spent time with each other like this before coming here, like normal people would. there was always something else hanging over us back at home, even after the facility. so we know each other well enough, but

i think you could say we're still getting to know the people we are outside of it all

I'm sure you two had plenty of disagreement and strain. I believe you and Yesod know each other well after all these years, but it takes a lot to trust someone with yourself, especially in the face of uncertainty. Not just our situation but also being uncertain in yourselves.

Kaveh and I were lacking such trust up until very recently. A few months ago Kaveh wouldn't have considered calling me. Nor would he have let me to be there if he couldn't trust me not to interfere with the choice he wanted to make.

I still don't agree with it. Kaveh knows where we're opposed in our view of the world. But I made the choice to be there. I wanted to be there, but that was only possible so long as Kaveh trusted me to make the choice that I wanted to live with even if it seems like the more painful choice.

For me, being there with Kaveh means that I have the ability to do something for him if his own strength fails. Being there also means I have time with him, and I would rather have him despite the difficulties than not have him at all. I could have decided instead to wait and let him return to me. I didn't want that.

Do you trust Yesod to make that sort of choice based on what he himself wants?

yeah. i trust him. i just didn't want

i guess i already felt like i don't give him enough in return. the last thing i wanted to do was expose him to something i knew would hurt him to watch, for someone else's sake.

back when we were our first selves, i could handle things pretty well. when carmen died, when the others started dying too... i was somewhat fine. it was something i could deal with.

it wasn't like that for him.

this all makes me hypocritical, i know, for not liking when people do things to try to protect me from being hurt, but i still find myself wanting to do the same thing for yesod anyway

So long as you know you're being a hypocrite.

I believe you hold your own life at a higher value than Kaveh does, but you have a similar trait of wanting to give and perhaps not understanding how much you already do. When Kaveh hurts himself in the process, that has an effect on me regardless whether I'm there or I find out the details later. And I will find out, especially in this place. That's why the choice was never about whether I would let Kaveh or whether I would be hurt. The choice was about I wanted to face it.

It's ultimately your decision whether or not you'll adjust your behavior based upon the effect it has on Yesod. Kaveh will never change over me, and I've chosen him with full awareness of that. If you, also, would not change course to minimize harm to Yesod, then you have to trust that he understands that and has chosen you regardless. Verbally clarify it if you need to.

Perhaps he'll agree that he'd rather let you protect him after all, or perhaps supporting you in your struggle is more important. But shouldn't his opinion matter in that choice?

...guess you have a point.

i'll try asking it like that, then.

I think you'll find things start falling into place when you do. In a way, you also have been holding back.

[Just not a restraint in the same manner. Which--]

Speaking of holding back, perhaps you should lead by example so he can face it. Have you tried ravishing him?

hey wait where's this coming from

You were saying he's holding himself back. Yesod seems like the kind of person to prefer to mitigate risks wherever possible. As such, if you want him to loosen up with you, you might consider being risky in ways that aren't a threat to your life.

[well. please hold.

okay. anyway.]

well

we've tried a couple things, definitely

but maybe not in a risky way necessarily

Perhaps risky isn't the best word. I was thinking about a very unrestrained expression of your feelings.

i've been encouraging it from him, for sure, that's been going pretty well

i thought i was equally enthusiastic though? so i'm not sure how much this would actually help

Your usual disposition is extremely subdued. This isn't a bad thing. I appreciate your ability to maintain calm despite the situation. But since Yesod is also reserved, is it possible there's a struggle of momentum? How much more enthusiastic do you want things to be?

not sure you actually want me to answer that, man

but i also wouldn't say he's very reserved in bed

You don't have to give me specifics.

If you feel things are suitably enthusiastic in bed, what about other areas of your relationship? He's holding back with you in some way, and you're occupied with it, but where is it manifesting?

he holds back when it comes to how he feels about me

probably because of what the situation is like as a whole

i've kept trying to encourage him to just act on how he feels, and i don't know if it's actually been working or not. i'd like to think he gets it.

did you try any of those weird masks, before

Kaveh and I did swap masks for a time. I take it you and Yesod did as well?

we did, yeah.

so i know he's restraining himself, and that it aches to do

i told him i don't want him to be left feeling that way

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